TAW: "Is the OSR in Trouble?"
Thoughts after watching Limithron's "State of The OSR" panel From Gary Con
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Introduction
Watch Time: 1 hr 24 minutes YouTube Video
Ship of the Deadpodcast produced by Limithron
I had a number of thoughts flying around as I sat listening to this panel of OSR creators from recent GaryCon. The discussion is a smattering of opinions I found insightful and interesting, along with a walk through where this panel thinks the OSR is. It was great to hear some very successful creators within this space have some of the same frustrations or questions we all have and peek into their minds to see what they’re thinking.
Panel members:
Matt Finch Mythmere Games - Tome of Adventure Design
Kelsey Dionne Arcane Library - Shadowdark
Yochai Gal - Cairn and New School Revolution
Brad Kerr - Between Two Cairns w/ Yochai
Merry Mushmen - Mentioned heavily - Producers of KNOCK! Magazine
Luke Stratton - Pirate Borg, host of the Panel
The Thing
This will be less a complete breakdown of the video and more of my thoughts on parts of the discussion that spoke to me.
What is the OSR?
Rightly so, the panel laughs at this question. Old School Revival, Old School Revolution - some of the ideas? all of the ideas? who decides which ideas are actually definitive of the OSR? I've been consuming large quantities of old school material and it really is a funny thing. People will say something is or is not OSR for one reason or another and you can find evidence for any position you could take on it. I really like the explanation the panel lands on:
Rules/products created with the intention of enabling a style of play that is thought to have been commonplace in the 1970s/80s and incorporates common sense rulings by a "referee" player focused of at least one of the following: Player agency, Exploration, Critical Thinking, Old School DIY style art. It doesn’t need to have all of them, but it does always have at least one.
At one point the panel says "you know it when you see it, like pornography" and I think that is a silly but astute way to put it. Even as someone who takes an interest in this niche, I feel like you have to steep yourself in the stuff and then it just kind of makes sense and you can spot it. Like those pictures you have to relax your eyes to see in the patterns.
When I started my pilgrimage from 5E but before I found Shadowdark I got real close to running OSE and DCC, both of which I would consider old school games. OSE being close to an actual D&D remake and DCC having the vibes but going a bit gonzo with it. Both OSE and DCC have that complexity that I feel creates natural barriers for entry, while the games most created by the members of this panel are lower barrier - simpler designs meant to deliver the vibes of the OSR without the barriers. It certainly opened my eyes to flexibility in rules and systems.
When Yochai says in finding Into the Odd that he "Found his version of the thing", I know what he means. I feel like right now Shadowdark has been the closest thing I've found to "The Game" for me, so that's what I've been making content for. At the same time, as I see more and I soak different Ideas, I see how one can get to a point where they just feel like it's time to make your own game.
"Online Community" Vs "Community"
Again this discussion reflects my experience. It seems rather common to be running around to different corners of the internet delving for arcane knowledge that is spread amongst all these different one-off blog posts. It's always cool to discover a new rabbit hole after an interesting idea gets passed around.
The "online community" seems very siloed right now. I was never on Google Plus, and I wasn't into the OSR scene when it was a thing, though I've now seen multiple places where it is missed and revered as the passing of a great connective resource. I think Luke's question is a good one that a lot of creators think about, how do you support and create community? And though Yochai and Matt's response is pretty snarky, It does seem to come from a place of having spent along time trying to create real community and it being very different from what you see online versus what is happening when people are face-to-face actually playing these games. It seems to feel better in the real world in 90% of cases.
I am a fan of the phrase "meat space" which I think is the joke being made as it sounds like "meet space" but either way it makes me chuckle. All the persons on this panel seem like crusaders for the hobby and I love to see that. Being someone that has been fortunate enough to have been attending cons for a long time, I can say it tracks that conventions can feel like the absolute pinnacle of gaming. Having a good time with good people around a table is the best, and conventions are a great place to widen your circle with people who are into what you’re into.
This feels like the lifeblood of the hobby, people making things to enable people to tell stories together.
Blogs
As a writer of a ttrpg Substack blog newsletter, I found it interesting that not one of the contributors mentioned Substack. Blogs in general were discussed at length as there being good hits here and there and ideas get passed around from this blog and that, and alot of good blog resources are mentioned in the discussion. I myself plan to go looking into some of the mentioned dark archives mentioned, I’ll be sure to link to anything I find interesting.
I think this is something to note though. This seems like a transitional time for this kind of thing. Maybe because a Substack publication can be a newsletter and less a Blog depending on how you use it, and there isn’t really a #ttrpg section of Substack (there SHOULD BE THOUGH) maybe this will become a thing at some point to fill the void that currently seems to be left by siloed Discord servers, old forums and manually hosted blog rolls. I don’t not like the idea of the blog roll, I just think there’s gotta be a better way and it seems like the creators would agree. A new goal I have is to get the Glyph and Grok on one of these blog rolls :P
Writing for system or system neutral?
As someone who has had this same question when deciding what to create and how to create it, this is interesting. Because of the ambiguity of “what is OSR?” it can be very frustrating to try to pick a lane or to write something ‘system neutral’ or ‘system agnostic’ in a way that makes sense.
If you’re making adventures and you want a wide audience it makes sense to try to make something that would be fun no matter what system it’s played in, but as one panelists point out, the fact that is difficult is evidence that “system matters” - which I know is another point of argumentation out there.
In creating system neutral stuff, you’ll still run into the problem that nothing is truly disconnected from the base system - which is usually some kind of D&D. There’s attributes and checks and you might roll over with a modifier or roll under with just an attribute score but in the end it doesn’t REALLY seem to matter which way you go with it, only that you give a fleshed out and complete concept of the thing. Which I guess at the end of the day is freeing - once you’ve decided what will work best for what you’re trying to make.
Questions to you, dear reader...
What is your favorite aspect of tabletop roleplaying games?
Do you consider yourself an OSR player? Do you care about labels like Trad game or OSR game?
Does system matter?
Conclusion
To keep this from sprawling indefinitely, I’m going to go digging around into some of the suggested resources and will report back on them. I bought myself a copy of KNOCK! magazine #1 and can’t wait to get it in my hands. It may take a minute because of the insanity of the current political moment, but I look forward to reading it and giving a review here.
Till next time!
Thanks for Reading!
Please like, share, and comment your thoughts!
Really enjoyed your reflections on this—especially the part about “finding your version of the thing.” That line from Yochai stuck with me too. There’s something comforting in realizing that the OSR isn’t a strict doctrine but more like a loose constellation of shared vibes. Also fully agree on Substack being weirdly absent from the convo. I’ve had the same thought—like, where is the #ttrpg Substack scene? Maybe it’s up to us to carve it out.
1. Collaborative storytelling with friends.
2. Only a little, I really enjoy DCC/MCC. I don't really care about labels for games.
3. Oh yeah. Big time. A game's mechanics need to reflect its themes and setting. Look at games like Dread, Paranoia, Deadlands, and Aces & Eights. If a game system can help draw players into the narrative, evoke an emotion, or immerse them in the setting, its doing much more than randomizing an outcome.
Check out more unusual stuff.
Look for unique mechanics.
Get weird!